Though it's hard to imagine, Leeds' favourite anarchist popsters CHUMBAWAMBA are actually into their third decade as a band. Post-Millennium, though, they're perhaps even more relevant than ever, and no more so than on their superb new album "Un", which is a vintage collection and demonstrates just how eloquently pop and politics can go hand in hand. Reason enough for W&H to get on the phone to the band's Alice Nutter for a frank and open discussion about everything from Iraq and its' aftermath to the history of sampling and who she'd really like to chuck a cream pie at.
Alice is a fantastic conversationalist. Frank, open, opinionated and fiercely intelligent, she's also great fun; a fact that perhaps too many people miss when discussing Chumbawamba and their on-going struggle with the powers that be.
We begin by discussing the band's excellent new album "Un", which as ever (sound-wise) is a case of expect the unexpected. The previous Chumbas album had been a radical change with the lush keyboards, beakbeats and English folk samples, but "Un" has a distinctly South American feel, with elements of this allegedly "recorded on a mini-disc in Latin America," according to their press release. Alice, what gives?
"I went to Cuba and Mexico on holiday," she replies.
"And I recorded a lot of the samples we use on a mini-disc, but it isn't so much music as conversation and snatches of speech."
"For instance," she continues, " we use kids on one track which was recorded at this huge demo in Havana. There were these kids dressed up as Castro in fake beards."
"So yeah, there is a distinct Latin-American feel, though it's certainly not a purist thing with us, we're all about removing borders and blending influences. For example, there are a load of more subtle textures on the album that aren't immediately apparent...like there's Polish fiddle on there and a one-string Chinese guitar, out of tune Polka things and there's still a strong element of English folk as we have guest musicians like (well-respected folk accordion player) Andy Cutting all over the record. We'd nevey deny our roots either."
Right, but while we're on the subject of sampling and blending, the album's opening tune "The Wizard Of Menlo Park" is almost a potted history of sampling ("messing up time from Accrington to Amazon") and the way it's affected the way we use recorded sound over the past - crikey - 30 years. I mean, it was the late, ex-Elton John producer Gus Dudgeon (namechecked in the song) who inadvertently spliced together the first loop back in 1971, right?
"Yeah, and that's the thing, the fact that music is an ongoing process of stealing," says Alice.
"By that, I mean music is a collective process of blending influences and bringing out new possibilites, but it's all got a thread from something that's gone before. It's how you choose to use that. I mean, some people couldn't take it when The Beatles went weird on them and started getting in avant-garde elements, but it didn't faze them and they assimilated it into the braoder spectrum of what they were doing. How else do you make progress?"
How indeed, but let's talk about the sound of the new album a little more. To me it's almost an updated, expanded take of the "Anarchy" album from 1994. How does that comparison sit with you and was it intentional to sound more commercial this time round?
"I actually never thought of it that way," Alice considers.
"For me, it's more of the flipside to "Readymades", in that it's still got strong folky elements, but expanded to include Asia, Latin America, Africa and the whole world, basically - a cheerful, UnEnglish "Readymades" if you like."
"I mean, with "Readymades,"" she continues, without missing a beat, "It was a fine record, but it was all lush keyboards and it was a lovely record to listen to at home or driving, but not really a live record.
"This time we wanted to make a record we could present live and we already have six songs from the new album in the live set. I mean, we've done a string of acoustic gigs recently round Europe and they've been great because it's a big difference in presenting something that's more low-key with a capella treatments and gentle acoustic guitars. You need to forge a different bond with the audience and you can't get away with the cockiness of rock gigs, you know what I mean?
Reckon I do...
"Yeah, I mean can you imagine Liam Gallagher performing at an acoustic folk evening. He'd be laughed out of there, wouldn't he?"
Yeah, suppose so...can't say I'd thought about it, but you have a point.
"But to get back to what you were saying about making commericial records," says Alice, thinking ten to the dozen, "We WANT to make commercial records, in the sense that we want as many people to listen to us."
"I mean, if you have a political worldview, people tend to think you wanna be elitist and live in a ghetto and that's not our philosophy at all. We're intererested in being inclusive to all. Besides, we need to be an alternative to the charts which are horrendous in that they're dominated by the old-fashioned Max Bygraves school from "Pop Idol"...."
I was about to say don't get me started on that one...
"Yeah, right!" laughs Alice.
Let's move on anyway. The song "Just Desserts" from the new LP is hilarious: killer hook and really witty lyric about Bill Gates getting a cream pie in the face. I also love the chorus: "Never trust a man with egg on his face". Genius in itself.
"Yeah, you know we wanted to use that image of Bill Gates after he'd been pied on the cover of our "What You See Is What You Get (WYSIWYG)" album," confesses Alice.
"But we were signed to Universal in America at the time and they took one look at it they nearly died with fright. They were going: "You can;t use this, they'll sue the arse off us!"
So you compromised...
"Yeah, that's why the cover features two dogs shagging instead!"
Naturally, but come on Alice - you've got just the one massive, freshly-baked pie to lob. Who's the most deserving subject?
Alice gives this a full minute's contemplation and then decides in no uncertain terms.
"Tony Blair," she says defiantly.
"Why? Because he's a cunt. He's so holier than thou. The way he goes on. Anyone with any modicum of sense can see he should have followed the Spanish example and withdrawn from George Dubya's murderous alliance."
At this stage, Alice has really warmed up and while we're on the subject of everyone's favourite world alliance, let's talk about "Un"s most controversial - and arguably best - track "On eBay", which is basically about the way America is simply standing back and allowing Iraqi culture to be looted...especially topical with the images of alleged torture featuring daily in the newspapers at present.
"We called it "On eBay" because of what Donald Rumsfeld (embattled US defence secretary) was saying and his unbelievable quote about "The television are repeatedly showing the same footage of one man stealing the same vase" from Baghdad's greatest museum which has been horrifically ransacked."
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"Let's make this clear," she continues. "That museum's been decimated. Over 6,000 items have been lost and - in some cases - sold on, hence the song's title. That's horrific and it''s made even worse by the fact it's being replaced by generic American culture. It's absolute chaos and the idea of sending more tropps in should make any sane person shudder."
"But then it amazes me that people don't seem to want to believe that torture of civilians and prisoners goes on," she continues, aghast.
"I mean, there's no such thing as a 'Good War' the way people seem to try to rationalise these things. Even if you look at the Nazis - and of course they were reprehensible murderous scum - but so were the British during the war and the Russians, who also raped and murdered in the name of defence. Nothing changes and people still want to swallow the lies."
They sure do. I mean, I don't know how anyone can take the likes of Donald Rumsfeld seriously, he's obviously lying blatantly.
"Exactly," Alice concurs.
"He spouts this drivel and the Ministry Of Defence come in and say the footage is all a con. Bollocks. Then of course you discover the likes of Rumsfeld have a vested business interest in rebuilding Iraq. I don't know how we can be so stupid in thinking we can leave this stuff to the politicians anyway - they're stuck in their little safety bubbles. It's up to us as citizens to do something about this shit."
The logical culmination - you'd hope and pray - is that Bush will be voted out in November. Is this a realistic proposition, do you think?
"I'm absolutely hoping so," says Alice, from the pit of her stomach.
"It depends really, probably on who has the bigger backers, depressingly. There again, we say about being voted out - didn't Bush fiddle the count the last time, if we recall what happened in Florida? Who's to say that can't happen again," she finishes with a chill.
Moving on to one of the album's other tunes, "Buy Nothing Day", I must admit I was wholly ignorant that such a day actually exists on the calendar (November 23, folks - check out www.adbusters.org ). On this day, activists have been giving free food and drink away outside our favourite multinationals Starbucks and MacDonalds, I'm told, but while this idea is catching on in Europe, is it something Britain is taking on?
"Well, it's a really good idea and I do love the idea of us all being entirely non-materialistic for one day of the year at least," Alice ponders.
"'Adbusters' did this thing really where they had another alternative called 'A Week Away From The Telly'...brilliant in itself, though they suggested all these hilarious, '80s kind of ideas like "cover your telly with a cloth for the week" to stop you watching it," she guffaws.
"I mean, I am actively trying to watch less shit on the telly," she continues.
"I've got into radio for one thing. You can't get away with 'style radio' the way you can with 'style TV' anyway, you've got to have substance with radio to keep peoples' attention, so that quality control with the best radio programmes is great. It's something the TV should aspire to, though it probably won't."
Talking of demanding quality on our lives, the full-blooded Latino groove of "When Fine Society Sits Down To Dine" is one of the new album's highlights and it's all the more resonant for talking of the achievements of Bolivia's "Women Creating" movement. Featuring women activists of all ages, they have managed to intervene with a bank that had been suffocating them with debt and actually stopped soldiers mowing down protestors amongst other things in recent years.The women themselvs have also done this and retained their essential humour, creating a cafe with a Bolivian name that translates as "laughter". That's impressive....
"Yeah, it is," Alice agrees.
"And they've achieved common support with all ages and class. It's all about coming and going as and when you want to make a contribution and having that contribution recognised. They'ev broken down the barrier between socail activism and the general public that seems to exist in Western Europe, though I guess that's a matter of perception. For one thing, here the idea of activism is seemingly defined as a young person's thing, whereas with them it's an ongoing thing for everyone."
OK, well we're running out of time but before you go, tell us more about the song "We Don't Want To Sing Along" from the new album, which is - at least partly - a commentary on the Columbine High School shootings and the ultimate suicides of protagonists/ students Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. The song rightly makes the point that society has a long way to go if it still (and it does) condones the abuse and vilification of individuals, doesn't it?
"Yeah, absolutely," says Alice,
"Though I want to make the point that we aren't saying the likes of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold are heroes or martyrs. However, that whole culture of pop princesses and jocks has got dire consequences in that you can't truly expect to isolate, abuse and marginalise real people without expecting something of that magnitude to happen."
"But the essential thing," she finishes with wisdom, "is at the end of the day we've got to try and become better human beings in ourselves. That's the only way for us to start affecting change that will last."
I can only second that. Thanks again Alice.
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